Meet the Catholic priest who helped make the new ‘Knives Out’ Netflix movie

(OSV News) — When Rian Johnson was still writing the script for his new “Knives Out” movie, he turned to his aunt and uncle for help. They are Catholic, and his latest murder mystery would take place in a Catholic church.

His relatives responded by inviting him to dinner — along with Father Scott Bailey, their pastor at Risen Christ Catholic Parish in Denver, and other local Catholic priests.

“It was wonderful, because we had a great dinner, and it was kind of an Ask-Me-Anything session,” Johnson, who is not a Catholic, said about the priests’ impact on the script. “I got to just kind of talk to them about what their lives are like.”

Afterward, Father Bailey ended up serving as a consultant for the film, “Wake Up Dead Man: A Knives Out Mystery,” available to stream on Netflix Dec. 12.

Both Johnson and Father Bailey spoke with OSV News about the next installment of the “Knives Out” series.

The new whodunnit follows a young, earnest Catholic priest, Father Jud Duplenticy (Josh O’Connor), as he goes to serve at a small-town parish led by Msgr. Jefferson Wicks (Josh Brolin), a vulgar, fire-and-brimstone preaching pastor.

When news of a murder breaks out, Detective Benoit Blanc (Daniel Craig) returns to investigate what he calls a “perfectly impossible crime.” He teams up with Father Jud and questions the suspects: a church lady, the groundskeeper, a lawyer, an aspiring politician, the local doctor, a writer, a cellist and even Father Jud himself.

Besides writing the script, Johnson, who is known for directing iconic “Breaking Bad” episodes and “Star Wars: The Last Jedi,” also directed this new “Knives Out” film, which boasts an all-star cast that includes Glenn Close, Mila Kunis, Jeremy Renner, Kerry Washington, Andrew Scott, Cailee Spaeny, Daryl McCormack and Thomas Haden Church.

The nearly two-and-a-half hour film is rated PG-13 for violent content, bloody images, strong language, some crude sexual material, and smoking and contains content that may offend some viewers. The OSV News classification is L — limited adult audience, films whose problematic content many adults would find troubling. At the same time, it draws from Johnson’s Christian background and Father Bailey’s Catholic expertise to present a larger message of mercy and forgiveness.

As a Catholic consultant, Father Bailey said he worked to ensure accuracy. He advised on everything from costumes (what priests wear and when) to set design and props. He spoke about items someone might find on a priest’s desk. He reviewed images of the church sanctuary layout.

“It’s funny watching the movie, I can identify like, ‘Oh, I think I weighed in on that one,'” he told OSV News.

He revealed particular things he is responsible for, including Msgr. Wicks’ name. Because of the priest character’s personality and role, he said, it made more sense to call him “Monsignor” than “Father.”

While consulting, Father Bailey also spoke with O’Connor, who plays Father Jud, about priestly ministry — and God in general.

“I feel like we just got to know each other more than anything,” Father Bailey said of the actor, who was raised Catholic. “At one point he even joked, he says, ‘I feel like I’m supposed to be asking you more questions about what it’s like being a priest, but I’m spending all this time talking about God.'”

Their conversations also focused on navigating the complicated realities of parish life, Father Bailey said.

“You got people with different personalities, people who are in different places in their relationship with God, and sometimes people just outright challenging,” he said. “How do you meet with people where they are?”

O’Connor’s character, a boxer-turned-priest, comes across as a flawed, but dedicated priest who offers a striking contrast to Msgr. Wicks. From the beginning, Father Jud says all he wants is to be a good priest and show broken people like himself “the love and forgiveness of Christ.” The world, he says, “needs that so bad.” When watching the movie, Father Bailey said he saw the impact of his conversations with O’Connor in Father Jud’s gentleness and tenderness toward parishioners.

For his part, Johnson said his Christian background also informs the movie.

“It’s kind of where it all started from,” Johnson, who is also a producer on the film, said. “I grew up Protestant, sort of evangelical. I was a youth group kid, but I wasn’t just in a church family. I was really, deeply, personally Christian up through my early 20s.”

“This movie entirely came out of me wanting to see — if in the context of a big, fun, Benoit Blanc murder mystery that’s still kind of a big tent entertainment — can I have kind of a multi-faceted conversation with myself about this topic,” he said. “About both what faith was personally to me and also its place in the culture right now — and can it feel like it’s talking ‘about it’ as opposed to ‘at it’ in a big Hollywood movie.”

Johnson, who is not religious today, said he needed to put himself back in the mindset of a believer, just like a method actor might, for the film. When he first started writing the script and the character of Father Jud, he realized it wasn’t working.

“Slowly, I realized it’s because I was writing it from the perspective of where I’m at, of myself today,” he said. Instead, “you have to really write through that character’s eyes.”

During the process, he connected with his aunt and uncle, which he called “a beautiful thing.”

“It’s much like Blanc, I think, in the movie,” he said of the detective in all three “Knives Out” movies. “I didn’t have a conversion at the end of it, but … it’s something I really cherish, being able to kind of dig back in and evoke the things that I found truly valuable about that time.”

In the film, Blanc calls himself a “proud heretic” who kneels at “the altar of the rational.” But by the end, he also draws inspiration from Father Jud’s example. Or, as Johnson puts it, Blanc sacrifices what is most important to him.

“That felt really important to me, that at the end, they’re still in that way, on opposite sides of the fence,” Johnson said, “but they’ve formed a friendship, and they’ve learned from each other.”

Johnson explained why he chose Catholicism for the film, beginning with the beauty and aesthetics of Catholicism. Catholics, he added, have mastered visual storytelling.

“One of the first conversations that Blanc and Jud have when they first start talking about faith is the notion of storytelling,” he said. “The idea of storytelling not as kind of making up a story or a lie, but storytelling in terms of the way that we, as humans, kind of sort and understand the un-understandable.”

Focusing on Catholicism, he said, also provided him with some distance from his evangelical background.

When Catholics watch the film, Father Bailey hopes they respond positively.

“I know that there’s some stuff in the very beginning, kind of the exposition piece, that can be uncomfortable,” he said. But, he added, “Things get redeemed along the way.”

Describing certain scenes, he added, “you don’t often find a message of mercy embedded in a murder mystery, and there is that … there’s so much in terms of mercy.”

The movie also explores Christians’ relationship with the world.

“Are we willing to meet the world where the world is and invite the world in and present Christ?” Father Bailey asked. “Or are we always going to treat the world as … if you’re not on board, then you’re against us.”

“There’s some beautiful messages in there,” he concluded, “of mercy and open arms.”

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