Pope says he wants to pray at China's Shrine of Our Lady of Sheshan

VATICAN CITY (CNS) — Pope Francis said he dreams of visiting China one day and, especially, praying at the Shrine of Our Lady of Sheshan near Shanghai.

In an interview with Jesuit Father Pedro Chia, director of communications for the Jesuit’s Chinese Province, the pope said he also would want to meet with the country’s bishops and with all Chinese Catholics, who “are indeed a faithful people who have gone through so much and remained faithful.”

Vatican-Chinese relations have been difficult for decades with the country’s communist authorities being suspicious of Catholicism as a “foreign” influence on their people.

In 2018, the Vatican and the government of China signed an agreement outlining procedures for ensuring Catholic bishops are elected by the Catholic community in China and approved by the pope before their ordinations and installations. At the time, Pope Francis also regularized the position of several bishops who were ordained without Vatican approval. The agreement was renewed in 2020 and again in 2022, although there have been times when the Chinese named or transferred bishops in apparent violation of the accord.

The interview, conducted in Spanish, was filmed in the library of the Apostolic Palace May 24, the feast of Our Lady of Sheshan, also known as Our Lady Help of Christians. The Jesuit’s Chinese Province released the video on YouTube Aug. 9.

Asked what message he wanted to send to Chinese Catholics, Pope Francis responded, “Always a message of hope. But it seems tautological to send a message of hope to a people who are masters of waiting. The Chinese are masters of patience, masters of waiting.”

“You have ‘the virus of hope,'” he told Father Chia. “It’s a very beautiful thing.”

More in general, the Jesuit asked the 87-year-old pope how he manages to meet so many people, preside over liturgies, gives speeches and write documents.

“Well, it’s nothing extraordinary, right?” the pope said. “By living an organized life, you can get things done.”

Having trusted collaborators and knowing how to delegate are essential, though, he said.

Father Chia asked the pope how he handles the criticism and even opposition to his ministry.

“Critics are always helpful,” the pope said. “Even if they are not constructive, they are always helpful, because they make one reflect on one’s actions, right?”

As for outright resistance, “many times you know that you have to wait, to endure and often correct oneself because behind some resistances there can be a good (constructive) criticism,” he said.

But some of the resistance is painful because it is “not only against me personally; they are against the church,” the pope said. “For example, there is a group, a few people, who only recognize (the popes) up to Pius XII, not the popes afterward. There are very few people, very few people, small groups.”

Eventually, he said, he believes “they will integrate” with the church.

Father Chia also asked the pope if he ever experienced “crises” during his many years as a Jesuit.

“Of course! Otherwise, I wouldn’t be human,” Pope Francis said.

Overcoming a crisis always requires two things, he said. The first is a change of perspective, because “a crisis, in a way, is like a labyrinth, you walk and walk and never seem to get out. You emerge from a crisis by rising above it.”

“And second, you never get out alone,” he said. “You get out with help or through companionship. Letting yourself be helped is very important.”

The response led Father Chia to ask Pope Francis what he would tell a young man who says he is considering becoming a Jesuit.

“Let him become a Dominican!” the pope responded, laughing.

“Really?” Father Chia asked.

“No, no,” the pope said. “I would tell him to allow somebody to accompany him, and to enter into discernment.”